Russell C. Leffingwell Lecture With Andriy Yermak

Ukraine's Head of the Office of the President Andriy Yermak joins CFR for a conversation about Ukraine's ongoing war with Russia.

Inaugurated in 1969, the Russell C. Leffingwell Lecture was named for Russell C. Leffingwell, a charter member of the Council who served as its president from 1944 to 1946 and as its chairman from 1946 to 1953. The lecture is given by distinguished foreign officials, who are invited to address Council members on a topic of major international significance.

GOLODRYGA: Good evening, everyone. As you all know, this is one of the most important weeks in New York City, not just because of traffic, but because of world leaders that are gathered here at UNGA. And very few countries and world leaders are more closely watched today and in the past two years than the president of Ukraine, who will be speaking before the U.N. on Wednesday, before he travels to Washington, D.C. to meet with the president.

And we are very fortunate to have Andriy Yermak, head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, here, who I’ll be having a conversation with on the record, and then we’ll be opening it up for audience questions. Welcome to today’s Council on Foreign Relations, Russell C. Leffingwell Lecture with Mr. Andriy Yermak. I’m Bianna Golodryga, anchor and senior global affairs analyst at CNN. I will be presiding over today’s discussion.

The Russell C. Leffingwell Lecture, inaugurated in 1969, was named for a charter member of CFR who served as its president from 1944 to 1946, and as its chairman from 1946 to 1953. Now the Council would like to thank the Leffingwell family for their generosity in endowing this annual lectureship, especially Tom and Ted Pulling. And we would like to welcome Ted and Madeline Pulling, who are joining us today. Raise your hand. There you are in the front row. Welcome. This lecture is given by a distinguished foreign official who is invited to address CFR members on a topic of major international significance. And with that, we will introduce Mr. Yermak to open up our conversation tonight with his remarks for a few minutes, then we will come on stage and have a conversation, and then invite you and your questions. Mr. Yermak, thank you.

YERMAK: Dear colleagues, friends, it’s a great pleasure for me to speak before you. I’m humbled and honored to be here in the place there the future is constructed. There are tons of the science fictions books on alternative reality. Physicists worldwide have been seeking evidence of its existence for decades. But the truth is, reality is altered within these walls. It has been that way, the President Wilson famous fourteen points, even before the place came to exist. Insight born here helped win World War II. The containment and deterrence policies, the Marshall Plan, NATO, and united Europe have been coined here too. So it’s the right place to share Ukrainians’ vision for stopping Putin war of choice and winning peace sooner.

Russia’s resources verse those of Ukraine, but we’ve got to prevail because there is more at stake than Ukrainian survive. Putin’s ambitions extends far beyond our land. What looks another Russian colonial war is in effect struggle to redesign the world. He views Russia as exempt form of international law, aiming to extend its influence. His regime threatens other European countries, weaponizing food and energy supplies, endangering millions of the people. It is a strategic gamble for the conquering and dominations. Russia aims to replay history.

If it should succeed, we will face the race of the multinational, autocratic alliance spreading across all the continents. What is existential challenges for all of the free worlds, and the story could end up the Philip Dick’s universe. But you bet it would be much worse than The Man in the High Castle reality. So we are in the same boat. It is either values-based policy beats realpolitik, or realpolitik cedes values of the Western civilizations to the beast from the east, just because a (businessman ?) has never worked and it never will. Putin has reintroduced war as a preferable way of achieving political and strategic goals in international relations.

That is why supporting Ukraine in the pivotal moment and enabling Ukrainian victory is the best way to prevent even larger wars around the globe. Whatever the cost supporting Ukraine now, the cost of dealing with the global crisis if we fail would be times higher. Nine hundred and forty-three days of the full-scale war, Ukraine is still standing tall. And we are extremely grateful to the United States for having staying with us. The unprecedented support of the American people, both congressional parties, the president and his administration, is crucial for our cause. We value the assistance provided and we use in the most effective, transparent, and accountable way.

We can beat Russia. Yes, we can do it through our mastery, dedication, and technology. The mind blowing, or rather just blowing, news from the Black Sea, Olenya, Tver, and elsewhere is a good testament to do it. If I were a propaganda guy, I would say everything goes according to our plan. It does indeed, but Ukrainian victory plan goes far beyond President Zelensky is presenting it. This is a Ukrainian vision, steps to be taken to prevail and to secure just and the lasting peace. The plan is very specific and clear. It contains both military and diplomatic parts, and prospects of the further economic benefits.

We are interconnected to ensure a holistic approach. So let’s get to the part one. We obviously need to have an upper hand of the battlefield to make Putin stop hostilities. We are trying really hard. Without ships, we have reclaimed the Black Sea Fleet. Without air superiority, we have stopped Russian advances in most directions, including Kharkiv. Without fears, we have brought war back to the Russian territories. The Kursk operation is developing successfully. Everyone grants it (for the opinion worry ?). We call it retribution, but it’s more than a military operation. It is myth-busting campaign.

First, from now on nobody can say Putin invaded Ukraine to defend the Russian-speaking population. For his result, the Russian-speaking population in Russia, aggression, it’s not defense, is that his regime is all about.

Second, everyone saw that happens when a civilized nation armed camps, no looting, no rape, no murders, no deportations, no atrocities. Compare to very unfortunately famous names of our cities—Bucha, Irpin, Izyum, Mariupol. It must be obvious: Russia, it’s not Ukraine. It’s a neo-fascist state.

Third, they find escalations, they scared, but nothing has happened. Again, just as nothing happened then we got tanks, we got ATACMS, we got F-16s, or when they started striking deep into the Russia.

Fourth, Putin’s nuclear bluff doesn’t work. Vice versa, threats of nuking Ukraine repel even Russians’ same friends and the states Russia depends on. But the real—(inaudible)—we still view nuclear-related facilities within Ukraine energy grid as illegitimate targets. We need to prevent it from happening.

To do it, Ukraine still needs assistance. Since the start of the -scale war, Ukraine has increased its domestic weapons production sixfold. Our defense industry is booming. We will still lack resources, technologies, and the time to produce we need to force Russia to peace. We visited Scranton Army Ammunition plant yesterday. They are working to meet our defense needs. And you know what? I saw the people fully aware of the away missions. Ordinary men and women who know that the evil far away is actually very close, and it must be stopped. They’re totally in for it. If democracy is in danger somewhere, it’s in danger everywhere. Their eyes, their words, it was all about true sympathy for Ukraine.

I take this opportunity to thank them. And I urge our allies to increase and speed up the delivery of the military aid packages. Air defense, drones, electronic warfares, long-range systems and artillery rounds are in our priority list. They literally save thousands of lives. And we call on allies to increase investments in purchase of Ukrainian weapons for Ukrainian soldiers. It will allow for a rapid increase in the military support for Ukraine and safe allied resources. Another vital, rich issue is the long-range capabilities. We’ve got to stop discussing red lines Russia draws. Instead, we need to start drawing red lines for Russia. And those must be absolute not go. On every visit to United States, we used to hear the same questions: What about the strategy of winning? Well, here it is. Ukraine has been fighting this one arm tied. Untie it and let us deal really hard blows. That’s what the military part of the victory plan is about.

And now, part two, the path to peace. To make it, Ukraine needs as much international support as possible. So when the ten points peace formula was developed that President Zelensky presented two years ago, it’s a critical part of the victory plan. The formula is aimed to preventing the return of war as a dominant instrument of international politics in the twenty-first century. The peace formula is only available and realistic peace proposal on the table. Also called alternative plans serve Russia aggressive agenda. It is crucial that we all work together to expand the international coalition of—in support of the peace formula.

We need game-changing peace summit in Switzerland, and now we are holding thematic conference on each point of the peace formula. These steps will lay the basis for the joint peace frameworks and pave the way to the second peace summit. In the meantime, steps should be taken and ensure both Ukrainians growing resilience and Russian economic deterioration. We need more sanctions against Russia, need to completely close any loopholes. Lack of money has always forced Russia to love peace. So make them pay big time. Use frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine.

And the last but not the least, the future security architecture. In his speech in Harold Pratt House seventy years ago, John Dulles said, “There is no local defense which alone will contain the mighty land power of the communist world. Local defense must be reinforced by the further deterrent of the massive retaliatory power.” You may change “communist” with “autocratic,” or not, but the sentence is still relevant. Collective security has been the key ever since.

Ukraine has been contributing to its four decades while kept outside. The era must be over. We need to create a ring strand to contain three-bore Axis of Evil. Strong America needs strong Euro-Atlantic community with Ukraine as the strongest military muscle.

Russia, Iran, and North Korea are cooperating closely with the simple aim to severing of the West. We must be quicker, stronger, and more resourceful to keep them at bay. Transatlantic security will benefit from Ukraine fast accession to NATO and to European Union. We appreciate very much allied efforts to provide a system of bilateral agreements through the frameworks of Vilnius G-7 declaration and Washington NATO Summit declaration.

But in the long term, it can never rival the effectiveness of the Article 5. Time has come for NATO member states to make decisions matching the historical scale of the challenge. It’s too late to fear. We want to be agent of the history, not its victims. So let’s do it, let’s be united, and let’s win together.

Thank you. (Applause.)

GOLODRYGA: Mr. Yermak, thank you for your opening comments, and as I noted earlier, we’ll have about a twenty-five minute conversation, then we’ll open it up for questions from the audience here and virtually.

As you noted, you counted the days—I’ll count the months. We’re sadly now in the thirty-first month of this unprovoked war, illegal war, second war Russia is conducting against Ukraine which, according to the Wall Street Journal last week, has killed roughly one million Ukrainians and Russians. Some estimates say some eighty thousand Ukrainian soldiers have been killed, four hundred thousand wounded. Russian casualties are estimated to be even higher.

You gave us some of the parameters we can expect to hear from this victory plan from President Zelensky later this week, and he’ll be presenting it to President Biden as well as Vice President Kamala Harris, and I believe candidate and former president, Trump, as well. Without getting ahead of him, are there any more specifics that you can give us as to what this plan entails?

YERMAK: Thank you for your questions. First of all, I’d like to say that it’s little bit not the right figures which you mentioned from this article, so the president, Zelensky, already reacted because we know the real figures about how many people we lost and how many lost have our enemy. But now it not about this—about victory plan.

First of all, I’d like to explain what is the difference between victory plan and peace formula. Peace formula, it’s understanding, and I hope you know that it is consistent points which presented by President Zelensky two years ago in the G-20 in Bali. And it’s about what necessary to do, and how we think necessary to end this war—to end this war, but not just to end; and how to end and bring just peace based on the international law and Charter of United Nations. All ten points exactly 100 percent based on the international law.

But sometimes just in our partners, and especially the countries from Global South, said: We like your plan. We support. And you know that in the first integrated summit we have—more than one hundred countries and international organization participated. But they said: OK, what happens if Russia not accept your plan, not go for these conditions? What happens if it will be without answer?

And the victory plan, it’s how very quickly created the real conditions that this conversation will be—not depends want Russia, don’t want, when it’s happen; it’s really how to make Ukraine very strong in battlefield, very strong in the—some potential conversations. And we’re looking that it can be happened in the second summit, and it will be possible when we will have joint plans. Joint plans, it’s ten points of the peace formula with the concrete steps what is necessary to implement of each these points.

Immediately after first integrated summit, we started—as I said in my speech, we started to organize the thematic conference by each points to fix these concrete steps. We already passed three such thematic conference for the energy security, for the food security, and for the restoration of justice. And now we are looking to go through the—all points, and I hope that in the beginning—before beginning of November this joint plan will be ready. And this will be based for the—some potential meetings and conversation in the second summit.

GOLODRYGA: Are you worried that your strategy to win will not align with the current strategy of the Biden administration, which we should note has been an ardent supporter of Ukraine since February of 2022. But it’s coming at the tail end of an administration, and traditionally, typically you don’t see administrations, especially a month ahead of an election, make significant moves. Are you concerned that the timing—as President Zelensky said, the fall will determine the future—between the two countries are not aligned?

YERMAK: You know, when very often we heard these questions about right moment and what’s—if we are concerned about especially this moment when you have election campaign, first of all, we always answer your election campaign, it’s one choice and then it’s one—your domestic situations. But for us it’s a very important—and I’d like to use this opportunity to say that we are very much happy that still we have very high support of American people and we—high support of the both parties in the Congress.

And you know, it’s about—I absolutely sure that the victory of Ukraine, it’s not just the victory of—in this war and just, you know, in the sense of the military victory. It’s very important for all free nations—and of course for United States, who is the leader of the free world—because if Ukraine not be prevail I think it will be—absolutely have the very big risk, and give the green signal and green lights for all potential aggressors. And we can see that it’s—the last time this crisis and this is pieces of crisis, it’s started—it appeared in different places of the world. And of course, we’ve seen that the victory of Ukraine, the victory of international law—because Ukraine wanted and not ask anything, and just today be in the territory of Russia. We not pretended for any centimeters of—and you can see that we are not calls any referendums, we are not talking about the annexation of the territories. Everything which want Ukraine, it’s to back our territories, to back our people, and to really bring the just peace to our land.

GOLODRYGA: Well, you’re right when you said that the majority of Americans support Ukraine. I believe that’s corroborated by polling. But you also know how long it took for that supplemental to pass in Congress and the impact that had in Ukraine in terms of morale, in terms of your performance on the battlefield. And President Zelensky even acknowledged in a recent interview with the New Yorker when asked what would happen if President Biden—not even former President Trump—but if President Biden rejected this victory plan. And I want to read what he said. He said, quote, “If he doesn’t want to support it, I cannot force him. If he refuses, well, then we must continue to live inside plan B, and that is unfortunate.” So my question to you is, how long can plan B last? And what are the consequences if this victory plan is not accepted and acted upon by President Biden?

YERMAK: You know, when you are fighting for your survival, it mean that we have another choice, because Russia and Putin come to our lands and come to Ukraine not for some territories, not for some protection of somebody; he want destroyed us. It’s mean that, as the President Zelensky said, yes, we are already living in the situation of plan B. It’s mean that we coming and presidents, you’re absolutely right, will present in couple—in couple of days to the first President Biden, to the Congress, to the vice presidents, and we’re looking to the—Donald Trump.

The real our position, how to create this situation then this war can be ended by just peace? And you know, we can little bit back to the beginning of these full-scale invasions. From 24 February 2022, if you remember, that many in the world looking to us and don’t believe. And some—in the beginning many people give to us three days, one month; but it’s already more than 900 days. It’s mean that our Ukrainian nations, we understand for what we are fighting. We’re fighting for our independence. We’re fighting for our freedoms. And the—our people, our Ukrainian nations, it’s very brave. It’s now understandable for all the worlds.

And we think, I hope, that—and we have—first of all, I appreciate very much for all our partners, first of all to United States, for so unprecedented support and help. And I hope that we found the solutions and our partners, and first of all again United States, will accept and support it, the—our plan of victory, and it’s really give to us the opportunity to stop the lost our people, to lost our children. And it’s really very hard for us.

GOLODRYGA: Will joining NATO on an accelerated schedule be part of this victory plan?

YERMAK: Yes. I think that the—as I said, the one guarantee now, most strong guarantee which exists in our world, it’s Article 5 of NATO.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah.

YERMAK: And of course, we very appreciate to our partners. Already, it’s twenty-six country who has signed with Ukraine the security agreements. But it’s work, and we always said that it’s works on the way to the membership of NATO. And of course, our membership, it’s very important for us but else it’s very important for NATO, because we really demonstrated during this period of time that with the help but alone to fightings with Russia we demonstrated that we are strong, and in the perspective we really will be very strong elements and part of the alliance.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah. You’re one of the most prepared, unfortunately, armies in Europe at this point.

YERMAK: Yeah.

GOLODRYGA: But NATO and—not NATO; European partnerships and guarantees are one thing—security guarantees. NATO membership is something else, as you know. Even some of your most ardent supporters, they—especially at an accelerated path is a fanciful pipe dream. And one of the reasons is because they view this as a disincentive for Russia to ever agree to ending this war. What do you say to that?

YERMAK: I think that after this more than 900 days it’s necessary to stop to think what in the—in the head of Russian because, you know, very often we heard, what do you think will be opinion of Putin of some Russian officials? You know, in the head of these people it’s the aggressions. In the head of these people it’s to back all the world to the more darkest time of the Second War, World. I think it’s necessary.

And if you can see that we—during all this period of time, we not think about what think Russians. We fightings. We defend our lands. And we still able to surprise the world, as has happened after the operation in Kursk. Russia understand, one, the languages of force, and we’re absolutely sure the way to the peace through the force. If you are strong, if you don’t react for the blackmails from the sides of Russia, you will win.

GOLODRYGA: Will President Zelensky accept a victory path from President Biden that doesn’t include an accelerated path to joining NATO?

YERMAK: You know, it’s difficult because I can’t open to you all details of this plan. (Laughter.)

GOLODRYGA: Why not? It’s in a room full of friends.

YERMAK: And you know, we’re very responsible people, and my president said that he’s opened all details first to the President Biden. I will continue to keep this position, of course, but to wait it’s not necessary so long.

GOLODRYGA: OK.

YERMAK: It’s happened very shortly, and I’m sure—

GOLODRYGA: I’m very antsy. (Laughter.)

YERMAK: I’m sure that we go so long way together. And United States of America maybe just not—because two years, it’s a long period of time. We are sometimes not realized that—how many thing change.

If we back to the Kyiv of the first weeks of these full-scale invasions, then nobody can realize what happened. We really have some moment. Then the—all the food storages in Kyiv was destroyed. We have opened one road, but we believe that we survived. We continue the fightings. And now I’m sitting here in New York. I’m talking with you. I have this great opportunity to say thank you—thank you, your great nations, for support that you with us.

I don’t believe that we will be after this way alone. I absolutely sure that Ukrainian victory, it’s strategic national interest of United States because you are leader of the free worlds. We believe to our friend relationship, and I absolutely sure that we will be together ended in the moment of our victory.

GOLODRYGA: Well, one area we’re expected to see some policy change from President Biden is he is expected to lift the existing ban on the use of long-range missiles in this war. And Ukraine has demonstrated a successful strike capacity inside of Russia, as we have seen play out. Can you explain in specifics how the ability to perform long-range strikes inside Russia will help Ukraine win the war sooner?

YERMAK: You again asked me—(laughter)—to open some details. I can answer in such a way that, you know, it’s not just if the enemies use against us everything. They directly hit the hospital of the children with the cancer disease. It’s not just that we can’t to use and can’t answer, because if you see that it’s a big difference, as also I said, that is big difference between Ukrainian soldiers and the Russian soldiers, and you can see that we never attack the civilians, we never attack civilian infrastructures. And this is logical that we need to have the possibility to defend and to liberate our territories. I think—and of course we need to continue and we continue these consultations, explanations. But let’s see—I think that our arguments in the end will win. (Laughter.)

GOLODRYGA: OK. Well, you’ve hinted at this before. We’ve talked about it. As journalists, I’ve talked about it with military officials, former military advisors to administrations that have all shared your frustration with the delay in delivering some of the weaponry that Ukraine has asked for, whether it’s the tanks, whether it’s the F-16s, now it’s the long-range missiles.

In addition to actually receiving this weaponry, talk about how significant it is to receive the quantity needed, because a lot of it, as we noticed—and sadly, one of the F-16s was lost in addition to the fighter pilot—I believe there were six delivered. And now we’re talking about long-range missiles. For them to be as effective as possible, how important is it for you to receive the amount and quantity that you need?

YERMAK: It’s extremely important, and you’re absolutely right that the delay for the vote on the package in the Congress, it’s really created for us big problems, especially it’s—unfortunately, war, it’s a big tragedy, and you know any delay, any—what has not happened in the time, we pay the more higher price. It’s the lives of our people, and of course it’s extremely important.

But you know, for us it’s necessary to be very constructive, and it’s not help if we are—will be repeated. I’m sure that—and people here in United States know that we have some delay of the deliveries. We not sometimes to receive the—in times what we need.

Our job has continued to work with our friends and partners, and if it’s necessary to spend more time to explain more and more but, you know, after already received help and unprecedental help and unprecedental support, I think it’s the mutual interest that Ukraine prevail.

What I can say? It’s necessary from our side to continue to work. As we said a lot of times, if it’s not happens from first meetings, maybe it’s necessary to have a hundred meetings. But we feel that, by the positions of our supports, it’s our friends, it’s our partners. We need to continue to work, you know.

GOLODRYGA: And the issue of quantity?

YERMAK: If—I’m sorry—if we looking, for example, for some history and how it was difficult of Benjamin Franklin in some many years ago, but most important the result.

GOLODRYGA: You know U.S. history quite well. (Laughter.)

It has been nearly two months since Ukraine surprised the world, surprised the Kremlin, surprised the White House, even surprised many Ukrainians with its incursion into Kursk, the first Russian invasion since World War II, and now you currently occupy about 400 square miles of territory.

Has it paid off? And the reason I ask is because it appeared one of the stated aims by this incursion was to draw forces away from other locations where Ukraine has been struggling. A name we’ve heard a lot, a city we’ve heard a lot is the logistics and transport hub in the Donbas, Pokrovsk. The first month of the operation has showed that Putin, despite facing defeat on his own turf, did not withdraw his forces from Pokrovsk, and in fact, according to Ukrainian Pravda, the number of combat clashes on the Pokrovsk front before and after the Kursk operation began, found that it has increased significantly, on average from forty to fifty-two per day. So given that, is it a success in your view?

YERMAK: First of all, now after these your questions, I one more realize how it’s important such personal meetings and to give the—

GOLODRYGA: I’m preparing you for Biden and Harris intro, yes. (Laughter.)

YERMAK: —and to give—because, first of all, it’s not true that we take some forces from another directions and put it to the Kursk operations. If we back detention in the directions if we are talking about Kursk, about the east, it was just before the Kursk. And realize that we not have enough equipment, weapons, we can lose some more territory, and like Sumy, like some part of the Kharkiv region.

We always—all the time we need to more—to be more creative, to go and looking, thinking about some several steps before we, the president, the chief of commander, they found this idea and created this operations because it’s not that we are planning to forget about some defending of our territories and thinking how to go to the Russian territory. We have to do it to protect and to create some place because, especially from Kursk region, they attack our territories. And why we explain if we will not be really equipped enough by air defense and by everything which we need, we come to protect our people. It’s why we are, again, repeated that for us it’s a big problem if we can—for example, it has happened in the Kherson. Then the enemy is on another side of the river, and just the people who stay in Kherson, it’s impossible without their defense to protect them.

It’s mean that for us Kursk operation, it’s—as I said. Of course, now it’s we have destroyed the many narratives of Russians, but also the main reasons and main goal, it was to—really to create this part of the territory, and protect our people in our controlled territory of Ukraine.

And you know, that, yes, it’s true that it’s not the Russians, it’s not takes the all forces, but step by step. It’s slowly, but he’s takes some troops from the directions of Pokrovsk and the directions of in other regions. And what is the most important? That every—each days then we can continue to stay in the Russian territories. Putin personally lost the support of his populations, and it’s each days give to him more difficulties, and you can see if we will be able to stay longer, he definitely have to takes some his troops from another directions. It’s not happen so quickly, but it step by step happens.

GOLODRYGA: Final question, then we’ll open it up for the audience.

Aside from pressure from the United States, your allies, to end this war as soon as possible, but with Ukraine in a position of strength, there is increased pressure among Ukrainians as well. There is fatigue, there’s the manpower shortage. There is weapon supply shortage. And polls show increased levels of concern about when this war will come to an end.

No doubt about it, Ukraine has surprised the world and showed its resilience and strength in fighting for its independence, freedom, and sovereignty. But how much of your visit now is dependent on reassuring Ukrainians back home—not just your allies supporting you—that this war will come to an end sooner rather than later?

YERMAK: Of course our people, our society looking with big, big interest what will be happened here, in New York, and then happen in D.C. in couple of the days. But I can answer to your questions by such examples. When many international journalists coming to the Kyiv, some politics, some famous actors, and of course many of them have the same conversation just in the street and ask. And what is interesting, when you ask the people in the street, do you tired, they said, yes, we are tired. Yes, it’s difficult because sometimes we have not electricity. We have—but if you’re ready now, if you’re tired, to go to compromise for the territories or to stop this war on some not acceptable for Ukraine, the conditions, they immediately said no, forget. First answer: We’re not tired.

You know, it’s—physically, it’s normally and logically that two years, it’s long period of time. But you know, it’s 900 days. And these people—it’s necessary to understand that these people make a choice. They stay in Ukraine. We are living on the sounds of sirens. We listen in Kyiv, in any cities, several times per day. Nobody guarantees that they go to sleep that you wake up. Yes, thank you. Thank your great system, Patriot; some of our city are protected. But just if you destroyed some missiles, it’s not guaranteed that some pieces can’t destroyed your apartments or house. But our people, it’s so strong and brave that they decided that, you know, we have another lands, we have another country, we have another families, and this is our choice. And I think that 900 days, it’s enough time to demonstrate it to all the world that we are strong enough, not just to defend but to win, especially if you will support us and we make it and use this momentum. Because now it’s historical momentum to really—to do everything, and this is possible just in short period of time to have some significant gamechanger in this war.

GOLODRYGA: Let’s open it up for a few questions from the audience. Let’s go here, the colorful top.

Q: Thank you. (Off mic.)

(Comes on mic.) Oh, thanks. Kerry Kennedy with Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights.

First of all, let me say thank you to you for your inspiration to everyone around the world.

YERMAK: Thank you.

Q: The people of Ukraine have really given us something to hope for and to work for, so we appreciate it.

Can you talk a little bit about responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity? Thank you.

YERMAK: Thank you very much. It’s very important for us.

And I’d like to start that, you know, we—as I said, we passed some thematic conference, and the last conference was a restoration of justice. I think it’s one of the most difficult points, especially for—not for our partners, but for—for example, for Global South. But we have very much successful, this conference. We have more than sixty countries participated, many from the Global South. It’s mean that for now, for the people around the world, they understand that the restoration of justice and responsibility, it’s very much important.

Because, honestly, we need to realize that we are really back to the more darkness time of the Second World War. Absolutely same, concentrated camp. I’m personally the—my president give the order and I participated practically in all exchange of the prisoner of war. You will be shock. The minimum was our people lost, including women, it’s forty kilograms. Everything that people explain, it’s terrible. It just—everything just listen and can see in the movies or read in the books about Nazis, now it’s absolutely happened.

And what is more bad, that in our world in twenty-first century not exist any international organization who can guarantee that these people have the human rights, somebody guarantee these human rights? Nobody works. Thousands of Ukrainian children deported. Now we not just working how to back children; we now created—and I’m—the baroness Kennedy, we created expert groups. We work and give some advice, some recommendations, because we understand if it happened, this, in another country it’s possible to use this opportunity. But we now build it, because everybody ready to work and want to help but nobody understand how.

And how—and you understand that children, it’s a very sensitive things. If you lost three, four years, it will be absolutely impossible. They change names. They try to change everything. And of course, it’s—can you imagine what—how go to sleep, all these thousands of the mothers, who don’t know what happened their children?

For example, Zaporizhzhia nuclear stations, in the beginning of the occupations they take—they took the childrens of the employees and said, we go—we send it for the—some summer camp. And then, up to this moment, they blackmails of these employees because they don’t back the children to the families. It’s a huge problem.

We decided, with Canada, that it will be the last points of the thematic conference, and the two last days of October we have big events in Canada physically. And invited, I hope it will be a lot of countries. And we sitting and discuss what is necessary to do.

Red Cross, zero. And I can say to you very honestly the president of Red Cross ask a lot of times me to meet. Finally, I decided, and not said to her, and invited in these meetings one lady. We back her from the—from the Russian prisons, and she, thanks God, born the healthy child in two days. She explained what happened. And two ladies who is wife and sister of some our heroes from Azovstal. I just said, OK, and invited them. And this president sitting listened; she had not any arguments. And in the end, I asked: Tell me, please, how it’s possible that not just one examples then your organization, which have the offices around the world, big budget, never—not just once—visited to any Ukrainian prisoner of war, but in the same time you visited in the hospital to the Russians? What happened? How it’s possible? And I think this is very important.

I’m—very helpful that a lot of partners, including the United States, we work together to—really, to create the structures and the—all these guys, starting from Putin, will be responsible for these crimes. This is—will be for the next potential aggressor for this some—because it’s impossible. Really, it’s look like our world forget about that what happened in eighty years. I can—sorry that I am so long, but it’s very emotional and very personal.

I can explain to you one more examples. When Zelensky started being president, you know that in Kyiv happened one of the biggest tragedy of Holocaust, Babi Yar. And during Soviet time, the communist want to close this and not talking, and Zelensky was the first president who is decided, and we started to rebuild, and I was authorized by him to create the real memorial. And we have some period of time before a full-scale invasion to do something and some objects historical we create. And what happened in the—some of the first days of the full-scale invasion? And this is a very famous video. Then, in the bomb shelters, very old people, and one of the Jewish woman taped a video and said: I never can imagine. I was in Kyiv when Nazis bombs, and I never can imagine that I am here second times in my life. And one family, in the first days of the full-scale invasion, they have two children, go today because they are living near of the Babi Yar, and one rockets killed them. It’s mean that in the second time in this place then thousand of Jewish Ukrainian—(inaudible)—was killed by Nazis, it happens again.

It's why it’s necessary to understand. And for you it’s not necessary to explain, but for some colleagues—and especially in Global South—it’s necessary to explain Russia, it’s not now the country of Russian ballet, of some writers; it’s really terroristic states.

GOLODRYGA: I have to say when you talked about the Red Cross I heard similar frustrations from many family members of hostages in Gaza, Israeli citizens who were taken hostage there, that they were very frustrated with the lack of significant action in demanding from the Red Cross to have access.

I think we’re going to go to a question virtually, and then we’ll take back—Elise in the back will come.

OPERATOR: We’ll take our next question from Alex Ward.

Q: Yes. Hi. Alex Ward from the Wall Street Journal.

Just curious, has Ukraine received authorization already to use the Storm Shadow or SCALP missiles inside of Russia? Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: That’s the U.K. and French long-range missiles.

YERMAK: Sorry, can you—can you repeat?

GOLODRYGA: Has Ukraine already received permission—

YERMAK: No.

GOLODRYGA: OK. (Laughter.)

Elise?

Q: Thank you so much for being here and your remarks tonight, Mr. Yermak. I’m Elise Labott. I’m the Edward R. Murrow press fellow here at the Council.

I’m wondering if—you speak about your vision for success and your troops continue to fight for success. Do you believe that your vision of victory—if you could expand on what that looks like, does it include all land seized since 2014, including Crimea? And do you think that vision lines up with the U.S. vision, which, obviously, is the emergence of a sovereign, independent, democratic Ukraine anchored in the Euro-Atlantic community but probably settles for a defensive line that does not include all that territory, but rather pockets of secure zones where—and cities and infrastructure where reconstruction and public partnership can take place? And just to tag on that, Donald Trump, for instance—I know you’re not talking about our U.S. election, but he says if elected he would just call up Putin and strike a deal, but he doesn’t even go that far to talk about a sovereign, democratic, independent Ukraine. Thank you very much.

YERMAK: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: You thought my questions were tough.

YERMAK: Yeah. (Laughter.)

First of all, about territories, I never listened that—about some American position that some of our American friends and partners say to us that they not believe or have some ideas for compromise for some territories. It’s true. And of course, I think it will be difficult to found anybody in our world who will be ready to refuse of the sovereign territories which internationally recognized, especially after so hard war and so many lost of Ukrainians. It’s the first.

The second, yes, we listen about some plan of Donald Trump to finish the war during twenty-four hours. Let’s see. I look. I think—I hope the President Zelensky have the opportunity to meet with Donald Trump and ask him personally to explain how he think and how he see the—his scenario and his plan. And of course, I know that my president’s ready to—personally to present our victory plan to the Donald Trump. And by the way, they had very good phone conversations.

And, look, we are very open person. We are very honest. And the president very principle person. It’s mean that his peace formula, why it’s so important? Because he in the beginning said I wanted to have any—I don’t trust Russia, because you know that we have—from 2019 we have more than 200 rounds of negotiations. Me personally, I participated in Normandy format. Some of these negotiations we stand with Germany and France and the representative of Russia sometimes twelve hour nonstop with zero results. It’s mean that we don’t trust Russia.

And of course, he wanted to have some on-the-tables negotiations. He said I want to be very open. And I presented our plan, because we are victim of aggressor, of aggressions, and we have this right to propose to the world and to listen all responsible countries their opinion, because, again, we not ask anything more than described by international law. Let’s see.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Mr. Yermak, I remember, I think just a little over twenty-four hours after Russia’s second invasion of Ukraine in February of 2022, watching a Twitter video that the president posted with his Cabinet behind him, you being there as well, saying: We are here. And some 900-plus days later, you are still there fighting for your country’s freedom.

We appreciate you joining us today. We appreciate you coming and talking to us. Thank you so much. (Applause.)

(END)

This is an uncorrected transcript.